lo'wI' ja'chuq:MInDu'Donbe'

Notification that Qapla' has been added to the English Wiktionary
Hi, I am User:Doremítzwr from the English Wiktionary. I recently heard about your predicament and felt sorry for you. You may be interested to hear that I today added Qapla' to the English Wiktionary, which I believe is the first Klingon-derived word we have. We have a policy titled “Wiktionary:Criteria for inclusion”, which requires that words entered into the English Wiktionary have three citations, coming from three durably-archived sources spanning at least one year. I have already twice cited Qapla', but I leave it to you to find the third. Our entry for Qapla' can be found here. Good luck! † Raifʻhār Doremítzwr 20:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Congratulations on the success of the addition of Qapla' into the English Wiktionary! Forsooth, there are very few occurrences of Klingon words to be found within mulitlingual projects these days. But this is likely due to the fact that the Klingon language hasn't quite "gone international"; that is, its "fame" is relatively small compared to that of, say, Esperanto. Also, the fact that (presumably) all printed material concerning the language is still under copyright can be a bit daunting to those who wish to incorporate as many languages as possible into a multilingual colaborative scheme. Nevertheless, it is possible to integrate vocables from Klingon (and other languages pending patent) without any infringement of copyright, hence the mere existence of this Wiktionary. You may already know this, but the Polish Wiktionary has a few Klingon entries, some of which are my own. One of the entries there I didn't add is loDHom, which they even present in its various inflections! So, I hope that knowledge of the Klingon language will continue to grow without difficulty, which should be the same for any language, constructed or natural. Cheers! —MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 02:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Considering the above warning: “Warning: this site will be closed in a few days, unless there’s some overwhelming reason not to”, it may be a good idea that you copy all your Klingon words hereïn to subpages of your user page on the English (or other, less threatened) Wiktionary. Thereön, you could argue for the recognition of Klingon as a language which meets our criteria for inclusion. As long as you make some contributions from time to time, I’m sure that your doing so would be fine. † Raifʻhār Doremítzwr 17:57, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Verily, I have considered this warning—and, indeed, still do quite habitually—and have already entertained the idea of repositing said contents to an extraneous promptuary of information storage. Nathless, I durstn't implement such a scheme, lest perchance I possibly prorogue potential progress per the present perfunctory prospectus. Nay, methinketh 'twould behoove all shall I proceed henceforth thru means and manners all but cogniscible to he who possesseth a fair field and no favour. But, Dude, thanks for your, like, appreciation and stuff. Uh huh-huh-huh! ;-) —MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 18:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

hello
Are you an administrator on this site? Or even a steward? (I'd write in tlhIngan, but I'm just a beginner). I've made a few spelling mistakes (like thlIngan and suv), which I can't delete. Jon 22:19, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Alas, I am not an administrator! If I were, there wouldn't be an ugly warning sign at the top of the page! The person responsible for that was Brion VIBBER, who, ironically, has nothing to say on this matter. As for me, I am basically the only person who is adamant about keeping this Wiki from being taken down. As you can see (via the history pages), I am pretty much the central force behind this particular Wiki, as concerns the creation and the editing of the articles. At any rate, thank you for your interest. (…not to mention your mistaking me for an administrator! :-) )—MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 22:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I've started adding entries. Since my tlhIngan Hol is still pretty poor, I'm concentrating on creating stubs with the Klingon-English and English-Klingon translations.
 * Other wiki projects elect their own admins; I tried emailing Brion, but I've had no response so far. The only way that they will take us seriously is by us building up the quantity and quality of articles, and attracting other editors to form a real online community.
 * I've ordered a TKD and I'm attempting to join the KLI. Do you know of any good learning resources? Jon 10:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 1. Stubs are okay, we can work around these. The point is: that the entries are created in the first place (and, of course, that they're not erroneous).
 * 2. To be honest, I don't really know who's "in charge" here. Maybe it's a Klingon! But, I, too, have tried contacting Brion and received no response. Perhaps he's an anti-Klingonist… Anyways, he is (I believe) only a systems programmer and would therefore be of no use trying to shut down a Wiki—after all, how do you "de-program" a Wiki?…
 * 3. I hope your order comes in soon! TKD is essentially the only legitimate document in print for the Klingon language. There is also an audio tape for sale, which I don't have yet but may get: it'd be nice to hear how the language is actually spoken! There is an online Klingon Academy, which you may have already been to, but other than that, I don't know of any other reputable Klingon resouces—apart from contacting Marc Okrand himself (which I would love to: if only I could…)!—MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 22:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

loHwI'pu'
I found the site on meta to request permissions. To make any progress we need a request page on this mu'ghom, in order to achieve consensus. I could improvise something in English, but it should really be in Klingon if you feel up to it. A simplified version of what they have on English Wiktionary should do. If you nominate yourself I will support you. The stewards (toy'wI'pu'??) may sit on any request for a while to see if there is any opposition.

If we can clear this hurdle, we should next aim for bureaucrat ( loHwI''a' ??) status - this would allow us to make any other lo'wI' into a loHwI'. Jon 09:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * That sounds great! If many tera'nganpu' (Earthlings) are going to read the request, they'll probably want to do it in some language with which they're familiar, i.e., DIvI Hol (English). I don't mean to toot my own horn or count any chicken before they've hatched, but I just knew that this Wiki would be picking up attention sooner or later. Also, I'm glad you've been adding entries as well, and without a copy of TKD! Wow!—Or, has it come in already? Well, you should be receiving it soon, I hope: it really does provide the barebones of tlhIngan Hol. In all honesty, I don't know much about "red tape" (to use a broad term); what I mean by this is that I'm not very knowledgable about official procedures as laid out by officiating legislatures. You, on the other hand, seem to know enough to feel compelled that we should have a regulating system in the first place. Silly me, all I ever think about doing here is just adding and editing entries—but that's really me: I just do what I do, sometimes just headlong, but that hasn't been too much of a problem in the past. Anyways, I am excited that there are at least some people out there who consider this mughom an authentically (and legitimately) viable endeavour!—MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 20:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You're back, maj. My TKD came a few days ago. Adding entries is, of course, what it's all about. However there are bad guys out there. Being an administrator makes it easier to revert vandalism; allows vandals to be blocked and lets one delete pages. Anyway, I made  a bilingual template. I struggled a bit finding the right words for vote and the like. Let me know if there are any major Qagh'a'mey, else I will request admin rights for myself and yourself. Qapla' Jon 21:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks pretty good! Here's how I would word it:

=loHwI'DIbmeyvaD tlhobmeH (requests for administrator rights)= ==Jon== *loHwI' jImoj vIneH (I want to become an adminstrator.) *loHwI' Xmoj vIneH (I want X to become an administrator.) *jIlaj (I accept.) ===Qochbe' (agree)=== ===Qoch (agree)=== ===Sovbe' (don't know)=== ===wuq (decision)===
 * The very top line is a more or less literal translation:

loH = administer; wI' = agential suffix; DIb = privilege; mey = approx., plural inanimate; vaD = approx., accusative marker tlhob = request; meH = purpose marker
 * Which yields the meaning: "For the request of administrator rights". But, other than that, it looks fine.
 * BTW, I really think that the Klingon Guide belongs in an Appendix, as that's where most didactic sections of a dictionary are placed.—MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 21:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

'aprIqanS Hol
Dear MInDu'Donbe', could you please help me? What am I doing wrong here: http://tlh.wiktionary.org/wiki/chen%27ay%27:-af- ? All new Afrikaans lemmas just be grouped together in the category 'aprIqanS Hol, but they don't :((( For instance: Afrikaans, Italiaans, Indonesies. Thanx --Manie 22:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Just see, they working now :))) By the way, do you perhaps know the Klingon translations for "singular" and "plural"? --Manie 22:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, okay, good. Was it that you were having trouble getting the entries to appear in the appropriate categories? If so, remember that a standard entry should look like this:

(The language code and header. In this case, Afrikaans.) (Pronunciation header.) * : /…/ (Pronunciation of lemma.) (Part of speech header. Here, noun.) (Pagename template.) ( : …) (Plural form, if any.)
 * 1) … (Translation of lemma into Klingon.)
 * For each language, the inclusion of its unique language code, placed at the beginning of the entry in question thus: (note the hyphens surrounding the code), automatically places the title of the entry in that language's category index. So, if the name of the current page is "hand", for example, and that page includes a language entry template, the page's title will appear in that language's index.
 * As for the Klingon words for singular and plural, the singular could be expressed wa'togh (lit., one count) and the plural mochtogh (lit., superior count). The basic abbreviation for plural is m. and is produced with the template .—MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 22:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Lovely, thanx!!!! --Manie 23:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * belwI'! (My pleasure!)—MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 23:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Nomination
I created a request page, and have nominated you. You have to indicate your acceptance or else decline. I'm not sure about namespaces, perhaps the page should be wIqImu'ghom:loHwI'pu'? You are probably right about the Klingon Guide, I'll get round to moving it sometime. I'd like to translate all the standard wiki text into thlIngan, but no idea where it's all held. Any ideas? Jon 10:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I found the standard text - which lists lots of locked pages. Oh um. Jon 11:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm actually not sure how one changes system namespaces. Awhile back, I did the front page by doing a redirect from the default “Main Page”, but the appearance of “Redirected from XXXXX ” gets a bit annoying pretty soon. BTW, have you noticed that the links to various special pages lead one to pages which each has its own Klingon name? E.g., Special → le'; Template → chen'ay', etc. If only we knew how to change the default text (i.e., the navigation box, the toolbox box, the “my” user links at the top of each page when one is logged in, etc.)! Oh well… Anyways, keep up the great work!—MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 00:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

days of the week
Dear MInDu'Donbe',

how are the following words declined?

Monday: jaj wejDIch, plural: jajmey wejDIch? jaj wejDIchmey? Tuesday: jaj loSDIch Wednesday: jaj vaghDIch Thursday: jaj javDIch Friday: jaj SochDIch Saturday: Hov jaj, plural: Hovmey jaj, Hov jajmey? Sunday: maS jaj, plural: maSmey jaj, maS jajmey?

Any idea how "Southern" and "Nortehern" could be translated? :))) Thanx in advance --Manie 22:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * To tell you the truth, I don't know if the Klingons have given much thought as to actual days of the week. There are, however, stardates, which use an entirely different system. My only guess would be to name the the way the Portuguese- and Icelandic-speaking peoples do it: by the number of the day in the usual order of the week: Sunday being first, etc. But I noticed you have maS jaj for Sunday; this would translate as "moon day" pro "sun day". No undue offence to Muslims, but I think it only makes sense to start the week with the "sun" day and not the "moon" day, as is the Islamic trend, according to their belief that Allah created death before he created life… Anyways, I would give the plural inflection to the "day", since that's what we're counting.
 * À propos specific words for "south" and "north", I am a bit surprised Okrand didn't include these in TKD. There are several words which are elusive to the Terran assessment of Klingon vocabulary. In these cases, such as with "sun", one must either: a) wait for the word(s) to be officially coined (something I am too impatient to do) or b) coin the word(s) oneself, whether for the nonce or for good, as I did with pemHov (=day star). Cardinal points of the compass, on the other hand, are a bit trickier to formulate. In TKD, one will find that even though there is no specific word for "top", the concept itself can be sufficiently expressed with "Dung", which means "the area above". Likewise, I would imagine that "north" could be expressed with "'etyoS" (fore district) and "south" with "'o'yoS" (aft district). Alternately, "'etmIch" (fore zone) and "'o'mIch" (aft zone) could probably be used with equal clarity. Notwithstanding, these are only “guesstimates”, at best. So, I don't know whether or not Okrand would approve of them. And, really, this is his language, so we should honour his decisions as they come. Cheers.—MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 23:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * So what are we supposed to do now? The reason why I asked for Northern and Southern is because of "azb" and "azj". Using your new coined words: azj: Northern Azerbaijani = 'etyoS 'aSerbayjan Hol? azb: Southern Azerbaijani = 'o'yoS 'aSerbayjan Hol?


 * As far as the days are concerned, I got them wrong. According to https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9101&L=gaelic-l&D=0&F=P&P=6835&F= (it says there surmised)


 * Monday: maS jaj
 * Tuesday: jaj wejDIch
 * Wednesday: jaj loSDIch
 * Thursday: jaj vaghDIch
 * Friday: jaj javDIch
 * Saturday: jaj SochDIch
 * Sunday: Hov jaj


 * I see that you are not happy with those translations. I also know that Klingon is Okrand's language, of course. But the Klingon wiktionary needs the day and month names! Could you coin day names? Once new names are officially given out, one can always still change them. Hope I am not being a nuisance to you people! Thanx --Manie 19:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Many languages (Chinese, Vietnamese, etc.) simply use numbers for names of months and days of the week, instead of direct translations of the traditional Western names, which would yield horrendous equivalents. Therefore, I see no (big) problem with naming the months and days in the same numerical fashion. On a whim, however, one could attempt to “translate” the days of the week in the following fashion (starting with Sunday): Hovjaj (=star day), maSjaj (=moon day), veSjaj (=war day), joHjaj (=lord day), 'otlhjaj (=photon day), bangjaj (=love day), and Satlhjaj (=agriculture day). A bit of a stretch, I know. Notice also that I didn't include spaces between the elements of the daynames; e.g., Hovjaj. It takes up less room and is less likely to cause ambiguity. Personally, if the number system is adopted, I feel the names would best be expressed like "oneday" = wa'jaj, "twoday" = cha'jaj, etc. Tolkien chose this method for creating daynames in his Middle Earth languages. Whaddaya think? Monthnames could be formed similarly: wa'jar, etc. After all, this universe is huge, so Western culture isn't likely to be a very determining factor in interplanetary chrononymy, IMNSHO!—MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 22:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I would also opt for wa'jaj, cha'jaj,...Great!!!
 * Another question: the word thlingan: is it pronounced or ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon_language has, which I don't understand, because -"ngan" is a suffix without a  and should not attracted the stress.
 * And what about "'etyoS 'aSerbayjan Hol" and "'o'yoS 'aSerbayjan Hol"? Are these forms correct?
 * First of all the correct spelling is tlhIngan and not thlIngan: please remember that! :-) The Zulu language itself uses the trigraph [tlh] for the same sound [tɬ]. Americanist transcriptions favour the symbol [ƛ̣]. At any rate, just keep in mind that we're dealing with an affricate which consists of [t] + [ɬ].
 * Okrand gives the pronunciation (in Klingon) as /ˈtɬɪ.ŋan/ (i.e., with stress on the penult). The English pronunciation has, to my awareness, always been /ˈkliŋ.ɑn/. The "a" in the autonym (“tlhIng a n”) is just /a/ and in English (“Kling o n”) is /ɑ/ because it represents an "o"; at least, that is, in General American pronunciation.
 * The suffix "-ngan" is an ethnic identifier. But as such, we would have to say that Klingons are, literally, “inhabitants of tlhI”. Isn't it funny how words that English has borrowed from other languages can differ immensely from their original forms?
 * For purposes of sorting (among others), I think it would be best to put “'aSerbayjan” first, with the specific regional labels in parentheses:

should produce〈'aSerbayjan ('etyoS)〉 and 〈'aSerbayjan ('o'yoS)〉 just as with the Irish and Scots Gaelic〈〉and〈〉.
 * P.S.—Please be careful with the templates! I've worked very hard and it would be way too much trouble to have to change everything in one fell swoop if a new system were proposed! So, do remember that! I don't mean to sound overly bossy, but I really know the ropes around here so just stick with the way I've been doing things, okay? I appreciate it! And thank you for the questions, let's keep this mu'ghom growing!—MInDu&#39;Donbe&#39; 22:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanx!!! I've corrected it now: see http://af.wiktionary.org/wiki/tlhIngan and http://af.wiktionary.org/wiki/tlhIngan_Hol. MInDuI. I'll try my best to adhere to your rules, of course! Could you please help with the de-template? For instance in Delmu': "Eigenschaftswort" is not blue!! :((( Greetings --Manie 16:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

language templates
Dear MInDu'Dinbe', we need the following (Amharic),  (Bashkir),  (Bosnian),  (Maldivian),  (Gujarati),  (Interlingua),  (Ossetic),  (Chinese, traditional),  (Chinese, simplified),  (Madagascan),  (Moldovan),  (Occitan), kn: ವಿಕ್ಷನರ (Wikšanarī) (Kannarese),  (Kashubian),  [Kurdish (Kirmanji)],  (Telugu).

Suggestions: Amharic: 'amar Hol? (አማርኛ amār-iññā [not āmar-iññā!]) Bashkir: baSqort Hol (башҡорт теле bašqort tele) Bosnian: boSna' Hol (bosanski jezik) Maldivian: DIvehI' Hol (ދިވެހި dhivehi) Gujarati: ghujratI' Hol (ગુજરાતી guj(a)rātī) Interlingua: 'InterlIngghua' Hol Interlingue: 'InterlIngghue' Hol Ossetian: 'Iron Hol (ирон ӕвзаг iron ævzag) traditional Chinese: lurDech jongghwo' simplified Chinese: ??? Madagascan: malaghaS Hol (fiteny malagasy; pronounced [mɐlɐˈgɐs]) Moldovan: molDova' Hol (limba moldovenească, лимба молдовеняскэ) Occitan: 'utSItang Hol (occitan; pronounced [uʦiˈta]) Kannarese: qannaDa' Hol (ಕನ್ನಡ kannaḍa) Kashubian: qaSub Hol (kaszëbsczi jãzëk) Kurmanji: qurmanjI' Hol (Kurmancî) Telugu: telughu' Hol (తెలుగు telugu) Xhosa: QoSa' Hol (isiXhosa) Venda: venDa' Hol (Chivenda) Tsonga: tSonggha' Hol (Xitsonga) Tswana: tSwana' Hol (Setswana) Southern Sotho: 'o'yoS Soto' Hol (Sesotho) Northern Sotho: 'etyoS Soto' Hol (Sesotho sa Leboa) Herero: Herero' Hol (Otjiherero) Chechen: NoHch Hol (нохчийн мотт noxçiyn mott) Ingush: ghalghay Hol (гІалгІайн мотт ghalghãy mott) Kwanyma: qwanyama' Hol (Oshikwanyama) Armenian: Hay Hol (հայերեն hay-eren) Aragonese: 'araghon Hol (aragonés) Georgian: qart Hol (ქართული kart-uli)

What do you say? --Manie 18:22, 9 March 2007 (UTC)